Officer Dave Berry, Stanford MBA

“It was hard to get over the concept in my mind that being a cop was not an appropriate career choice for someone who has degrees from top schools.”

Dave Berry is one of the most trust worthy people I know.  You sense it immediately when you meet him. He was also one of the “brainiest” of the Stanford MBA classmates that I got to know.  Coupled with an intense work ethic and drive to learn and a likeable nature, he could have succeeded at anything.  To walk away from Goldman Sachs and all the opportunities in business school for a job with the South San Francisco Police Department concerned some of his closest friends and family.  Dave says the decision took “mental anguish” that he likens to what he imagines someone gay coming out to a family friend might experience.

Why Law Enforcement, and Why Investment Banking

Jung: How did you figure out what you wanted to do?

Dave: For me it was a lifelong journey. I grew up with organizations where law enforcement officials were really respected.  They were seen as providing an important service.  It was something that challenged mind and body and interpersonal skills.  So I was really interested in law enforcement from the high school age.  I was a pretty high academic achiever and so I got it in my head that if you were sort of the more brainy type, you needed to go into the federal law enforcement, the FBI, DEA, and that was the path I was more interested in.

Jung: In college, that’s what you wanted to do?

Dave: I remember I talked to a recruiter in law enforcement who said I needed to get some work experience.  I majored in political science because I thought it was interesting and I thought I might want to go to law school.  I went into investment banking because I had developed an interest in international affairs and opportunities came up to get involved with banks doing international work.

Jung: You were doing work with Latin America while you were at Goldman Sachs?

Dave: I spoke Spanish and Portuguese, so I did a lot of work working with Latin American companies and that was really interesting. It was what I was looking for in certain ways at the time. I got to see more of the world.

Unhappy With Investment Banking

Jung: So overall you liked it? You were happy as a banker?

Dave: I wasn’t happy. I’m glad in retrospect that I had that experience.  And there were times when I thought I could do it for a while, but overall I was an unhappy person because it didn’t jive with what I thought was important in life. I grew up in a blue collar family and I always respected the more tangible kind of work ethic.  With investment banking there is some tangible gratification when you close a deal, you get to be part of a transaction, but overall it wasn’t clear to me what purpose I was serving as an investment banker or what I was really doing for society. I’m not saying I’m Mr. Altruistic, but I didn’t feel like I was personally contributing to anything in particular other than helping out the people I was working for.

There was also the lifestyle. They weren’t exaggerating about working 80-plus hour work weeks.  My life became very one-dimensional. Being far from my family in California, I wanted to be close to my family and that was kind of an issue.  I think when you’re that deeply involved in something, you want that to be something you like and you want to fit with what you do.  I’m sure I’m not the only one that did this, but when you’re that involved with something you start to start to reshape your goals and your image of your life to fit that.  So I started thinking maybe I’ll stick with business or finance, but the federal law enforcement was still on my mind.

The Decision to Get an MBA at Stanford

Jung: Did you go to business school to figure that out?

Dave: I did it as a hedge.  I’m interested in law enforcement, but what if I don’t like it?  I need to go to business school or law school where I’ll have a credential to fall back on.  When I was drafting my personal statement, why do you want to go to law school?  I realized I really don’t want to be a lawyer, so I changed courses and got into business school at Stanford, which was great and it allowed me to be close to my family.

Jung: What was your long-term vision at the time?

Dave: I wanted to get a credential.  That was the main goal of going to business school – get some useful applicable skills and broaden my exposure to the business arena to see if something else would appeal to me outside of the world of investment banking.  I was still wanting to fit my life into the business world.

Personal Growth at Stanford Business School

Jung: I’m waiting for you to get to the part where you met empty soulless people in the MBA program.

Dave: Quite the opposite! That was more than anything else in my life a great personal growth experience that ultimately gave me the courage to make the change I wanted to make. I met all these really great people doing a lot of different things, but generally focused around the business world. It made it more difficult and easier. On the one hand, I realized there are a lot of great people doing ‘business-y’ things.

Jung: They’re not half bad!

Dave: Yeah – they’re nice people.  The same thing went on in business school as it did before in investment banking.  You’re very involved in this world so you’re searching for a place within that world.  I’m in business school so let me see what I can find in business. I got interested in pharmaceuticals, that felt like an important thing, medications to help people’s lives.  I interned at Eli Lilly and had a really good time and wasn’t opposed to the idea of working in industry but came back realizing I wanted to be close to my family.  That was a big contributing factor of getting away from federal law enforcement.  I came back knowing that I didn’t want to live across the country – the federal government can send you anywhere they want, overseas, anywhere around the country.

Back to year two of business school.  I was applying to a variety of different jobs — working for the federal government doing international aid in the finance world, different pharmaceutical jobs, medical devices. The closer I got in interviews to really committing myself in one of those paths, the more I realized I had a really hard time imagining myself happy and content and interested in doing those jobs.

Applying MBA Negotiations Class Frameworks to Job Decisions

Dave: I remember in negotiations class, where they taught us about BATNA, looking at alternatives.  Don’t look at them in general terms.  To realistically find your BATNA, you have to look at the specifics.  What is my REAL alternative here?  What would it really be like?  When I was thinking in general terms it seemed interesting to me. But when I nailed down a specific job, and started really looking at what I would be doing every day, my eyes would start to glaze over, I just wasn’t that interested. I came to a decision point.. am I going to risk not doing well, or do well and not enjoy it, or will I take a leap of faith and do something very different from what I’ve been preparing for for the past five years?  I decided it was time to try out a local police department.  That was a really hard decision.  To tear yourself from a path.  It was hard to get over the concept in my mind that being a cop was not an appropriate career choice for someone who has degrees from top schools. But I started looking at what I wanted to be doing and now thankfully I have a strong background and an MBA so I’m sure if I don’t like it, I can find something else.  So I went ahead and applied for police jobs.

Jung: When it got down to the level of what I want to be doing day-to-day, working as a cop was still pulling you, more interesting for you?

Dave: For me a big issue was what is going to hold my interest.  You can look at things in very grandiose terms about justice and helping people – yes that matters – but if it’s not something that interests you, you’re not going to be good at it, then you’re not going to want to do it every day. I talked to people who were in law enforcement, went on ride-alongs and thought, this is interesting, this I could do every day.  If it holds your interest, in your mind it’s something worth doing.

A Career in Line with Core Values

Jung: It sounds like it’s so in line with your values – equality, justice, helping people, what I know of your strong sense of right and wrong, all those things.  It’s a good fit for what’s at your core.

Dave: I do perceive it as being a good match. Those things are important to me and I just can’t get away from them. Wherever I was, whenever I heard stories about things that sounded so wrong, even smaller things, it would make me so mad and I would want to do something about it.

This job is much more isolating because of the schedule. There’s a lot of negative scrutiny in the media which is not justified, but I’ll get to right a wrong or make someone pay for something they need to pay for.

Jung: It’s like you’re fighting the battle of injustices constantly.

Dave: You have some losses, but the wins are really a great feeling.

The Unexpected Isolation of Police Work

Jung: Wow.  What are some of the things you’ve given up?  What’s the isolation?

Dave: One is the schedule.  Hopefully soon I’ll go up to the detective bureau and I can work more standard hours.  But for the early years you work weekends and nights, and that’s when normal people get together. I’m sure you’ve seen me disappear from our social circle.  I work typically 12-hour days and they’re unpredictable.

The other issue is more psychological than social.  I think law enforcement, because you see such a different aspect of life than other people do, and you’re exposed to things that normal people don’t see, it really changes how you look at things.  It’s difficult. I see an aspect of life that normal people don’t see and don’t understand. Also the fact that police are so visible and so often seen by normal people, people think they understand what you go through and what you do every day but they really don’t.  There’s a disconnect between people’s perception of what you do and what you truly do, especially when you throw the media into the mix.

Common Misperceptions About Police Brutality

Jung: What do you want people to know about what you really do?

Dave: The most fundamental thing I want people to understand is that police officers are not a bunch of power hungry brutes. The people I work with are, for the most part, there are always people who will do their job better and less well, but the vast majority of people are intelligent, nice and people who really want to go out and help people.  Not help the old lady get the cat out of the tree.  Going after the bad guys and make them go to jail.  On a given day, the people police officers interact with are not going to be happy with them, but we’re doing it so that the other people can live their lives with less fear.  That’s what we’re trying to do, we’re not out there trying to make ourselves feel powerful. [laughs]

Jung: Is there something else there that’s isolating?  Or is it just that people have a lot of assumptions?

Dave: There are a lot of accusations of police officers violating people’s rights. Unlawful search and seizure or unlawful use of force, police brutality. These are things where basically the police officer’s job is to go out there and find people who are doing bad things, and make them stop.  You’re never going to get to 100% in terms of targeting, and the people you contact are ultimately either doing something bad or they’re not. And you’re going to do your best to deal with people positively and send them on their way, but many people will still feel you’re doing them wrong. Unfortunately there is no way around that.  Some people will be offended.  With the use of force thing, it’s hard for people who haven’t been in that position to understand that there are a lot of people out there who want to hurt and kill police officers. And even if they don’t want to, there are other people who are mentally unstable and will do it if given the opportunity. As much as we would prefer to be nice to everyone we meet, we’ve seen enough things and had enough bad experiences that we have to take actions to protect ourselves from actions that may seem innocent to other people.

Jung:  I get it now. You have so much more information, your universe is much more complete about the real dangers that are out there, so your response is in accordance with that.

Dave: That’s a good way of putting it. And when you extract yourself from policing in a dangerous part of town to socializing, police officers can carry the chip on your shoulder from being on guard all the time.  One of my coworkers was saying something about how there’s always people who don’t understand what the world is like.  They have no idea that there are people trying to rob them, rape them or steal their car.  It’s frustrating that the news media or whoever will turn around and make us the bad guy.  That feeling sometimes creates a chip on the shoulder that you carry around.

How Cops are Like E.R. Doctors

Jung: Maybe there are some parallels to doctors.  The resources have to be allocated so that you’re going after the biggest trauma, like the ER, there’s a reason why systems are set up the way they are.

Dave: I can definitely see the parallel with the ER – with doctors and nurses. You’re dealing with a life and death world where you need to make decisions quickly and no matter what, people will be unhappy.  80% of the people who leave will be pissed they had to wait 3 hours and if you are an ER doctor and you have limited information and it doesn’t turn out the way people wanted it to, you get sued.

Jung: Does it feel like you’re fighting an uphill battle that’s never-ending?

Dave: Yeah, unfortunately a lot of cops get overwhelmed with the feeling that you’ll never win.  You’ll win these battles but you’ll never win the war.

Jung: How do you personally deal with that?

Dave: I try to derive as much satisfaction as I can from fighting the individual battles.  I try not to allow the frustration over the feeling that the war is being lost overflow into my personal life.  I can be negative about the direction the world is going in.  My wife doesn’t let me watch the 10 o’clock news because I get so irritated.

Jung: It sounds like you’ve figured out your life purpose and there’s some aspect of fighting injustice.

Dave: Yeah I think that’s true.

Never Leaving Law Enforcement

Jung: That’s pretty cool.

Dave: It is cool. It’s true. Overall I am happy with my career choice. I’m not always happy with the details but I’m happy globally.   When I get irritated or frustrated and think forget this, I’m going to do something different, I can’t imagine doing something outside of the law enforcement world.  I can’t really imagine myself doing anything else.

Jung: Where do you see yourself in 10 years?

Dave: In 10 years I would really like to be a sergeant…  As a sergeant, that’s a great opportunity to be a leader.  You’re the person in charge of people and I can put to use a lot of the things I learned in business school and have a positive impact on the team.  After that is where the big question mark is for me.  Once I get there I will reevaluate and see if I want to be in charge of larger segments of the organization.

The Blue Collar Work Ethic Satisfaction

Jung: My sense is that you are going to want to be close to the justice fighting.

Dave: I see myself wanting to be close to the ground level. You have a case and you resolve it, make an arrest, make a prosecution.  It has sort of a blue collar work ethic satisfaction. If I chose to move beyond that in the chain, it would be primarily for lifestyle reasons – you make more money and have more control over your time.

Jung: The thrill of the transaction – the close, the kill, getting the bad guy. Did you feel that in investment banking?

Dave: Yes, that’s part of the reason why I enjoyed the third year, starting transactions, I had a flood of completions, which is much more gratifying than doing pitches and proposals.  There’s definitely that satisfaction.  I wouldn’t use the word “kill” in police work, but there’s the same satisfaction in the completion of the case. That’s what keeps it interesting for me, having that beginning and the end and getting to move on to something different.

Jung: It sounds like you’re taking things one step at a time.

Dave: In law enforcement you have a lot of flexibility with where you’re going to take your career.  I can more or less live my career in three-year segments. Most people come to a point in a job where they feel stagnant, and this is a job where there are so many different things you can do and you can reinvent yourself every few years with a very different aspect of policing.

Feeling Embarrassed: Making the Career Change Public

Jung: Coming out of Stanford business school, I remember the experience of having to tell people I was a life coach and I was practically whispering it. Did you have the same feeling talking about your job with other people?

Dave: I was nervous about bringing it up. It was just so different. I kind of felt embarrassed and awkward to talk about it, because the reaction was going to be “Why?” My close friends and family were supportive but in many cases skeptical.  With people I didn’t know well, it was very awkward.  ”What are you doing?” “I’m going to the police academy.” [laughs] I felt like I had to give excuses or reasons why.

Jung: Do you hide your business school background now?

Dave:  People know.  But I don’t advertise the fact that I went to business school and went to Stanford because the reaction I often get is, what the hell are you doing being a cop?  But it’s less surprising being a cop with an MBA background than being an MBA going to be a cop.  Now that I’m here I see that there are a number of other people at the department and in this profession with a lot of education, including from top schools.  I work with very smart people, it’s not a career for someone who’s weak of mind.  They tease me, but it’s not nearly as awkward as being at Stanford.  I did get a lot of positive reactions that I was doing something different. But my heart rate would increase and I would always get nervous talking about it.

Jung: I hope I fell into the category of being encouraging.

Dave: You did. And I didn’t blame anyone who wasn’t immediately enthusiastic… when I first told my good friend Brian he said, “I think it’s a terrible idea”.  It wasn’t because he was discouraging me, it’s because he cared about me. Same thing with my Dad. When I told him I wanted to join a local police department, he said if that’s what you want to do I support that but I have some serious concerns, and he spelled out what they were.

Don’t Let Perceptions or Achievement Restrict You

Jung: What is your advice for other people trying to figure out what they want to do?

Dave: I think the biggest piece of advice is to not worry too much about constraints that their background or perceptions of friends and family may place on them. There are lots of things we can do with our lives that are not necessarily on the same path as what we have been doing. It probably caused me more stress than necessary wondering about what other people would think.  Why should achievement in a certain area restrict you from doing something else?

Jung: I can really relate to what you said about how you change your goals to fit your environment. There is so much possibility when you shatter that.

Dave: You create your own bubbles and you’re afraid to look outside of that bubble. If you can burst that bubble then it’s very liberating.

What’s Most Satisfying about the Job

Jung: What do you like best about your job?

Dave: What I like best is the satisfaction I get out of an arrest or making a case – out of holding somebody accountable for something bad they did to somebody else. That is a great feeling.  Second in line would be the variety of what I do.  It’s something different every day, and I get to challenge myself mentally and physically and that really keeps my interest.

Jung: You are a true agent of justice.  How often do people thank you for what you do?

Dave: Not often, but every so often.

Jung: Well I want to thank you on behalf of parents.  Becoming a parent it touches you more, what all the possibilities of bad things can happen, and I do appreciate what you and everyone does to protect our kids and our society… to know that there are people fighting for us is a nice feeling, there’s something that hearkens back to the olden days somehow.

Dave: One of my friends in investment banking told me he thought I was born in the wrong century.

Jung: I could see you out on a horse.

Dave: It is nice to be thanked by people who are looking at it from that perspective, parents especially. You think about the world that our children come into and all the horrible things that could happen to them, everything from getting hit by a drunk driver to getting molested and it’s nice to know that I’m trying to combat that.

Jung: You are fighting big battles.  I think it’s so cool when people like you connect with your values and have the courage to connect with that and realize that. So many people only look at the set of possibilities right in front of their face at the career center.  And everyone else is doing it.

Dave: Yes, here are all these options and everyone else is battling for them.  What’s wrong with me? I need to find one that I like.

Not anymore!  Officer Berry has been assigned to units targeting gangs and street crimes, and is currently working patrol in a large Bay Area police department.

What if you could burst the bubble of assumptions in your current environment about what you can do?  What’s really possible?

Location: Cypress South, Tresidder

Are you a Mom who is dedicated to creating a fulfilling professional career? Is now the time to invest in yourself to assess where you are now and where you are going next?

Hear from life coach and Stanford alum, Jung Yoo, on kick-starting a process of self-discovery and goal-setting.

RSVP to WorkLife Office at 650-723-2660 for Brown Bags.

* Assess the priorities in your life today

* Make your vision of future success more clear

* Set and commit to clear goals

* Kick start your process of self-discovery

* Opportunity for free coaching

* Q&A

Lunch provided by Hobees. Advance registration required through the Palo Alto Chamber of Commerce.

RSVP required.  Space is limited.

I look forward to sharing 5 Common Traps that can keep you in the wrong job for too long.  I will give you some tools to avoid those traps and keep you on track!  I will be sharing my experiences based on coaching many many bright and talented people through the career transition process.  This seminar is perfect for those who feel stuck in their current jobs and want to hear about how to make a smart change.

This free teleseminar will be 30 minutes long, with time for Q&A afterwards.

“The teleseminar last Friday was awesome, I found it to be very, very helpful, personally.”

- Recent participant

Register here for this free teleseminar.

Meet other like-minded Moms, and consider your career in the larger context of what’s most important in your life. Take away a set of concrete action steps to get closer to your vision!

“This workshop was just what I needed.  I was feeling stuck before and this gave me a push in the right direction.  Thank you so much!” – Recent participant

Registration is limited. Click here to register.

7:30-9:30pm

Location: Palo Alto, CA 94306

Grandma at my wedding

A year ago this time, my beloved grandma passed away. I miss her terribly, but I’ve survived the first year of “firsts” – all the birthdays and holidays.  I do believe that there are gifts that come from all pain, loss and hardship.  One of my coaches introduced me to the concept of the Wisdom Circle.  I hope you will find it useful.

If you’re familiar with my coaching, you know we talk a lot about gremlins and the Wisdom Circle is a gremlin-fighting tool.  Gremlins are those inner critic voices telling you that you should be afraid of this, that and the other thing, or that you should feel guilty, that you “should” do this and that.  To borrow a few examples from real clients – “You shouldn’t be a problem child.”  ”You shouldn’t be so lazy.”  “You’ll be a failure.”

While the gremlins may be well-intentioned and want to protect you from something, (a) they make you feel bad and (b) they typically hold you back in a major way.  This obviously can apply to many areas of your life beyond your career.

What if you could replace your gremlins with your very own Wisdom Circle instead?

Imagine a group of warm encouraging voices who love you and lift you up, instead of beating you down.  My Wisdom Circle is around an outdoor campfire and my Grandmother is seated at the head of it.

The warmth of the campfire is more powerful than any negative voices in my head.  In my Wisdom Circle, I can hear my Grandma’s voice and her warm, knowing smile that says “I believe in you.” “Never give up.” “Have faith!” (These must have been non-verbal, because she would have said them in Korean and I can’t translate them into Korean.)

I’m no existential philosopher, but I believe that those who leave us behind live on in our hearts forever and can speak volumes of wisdom if we tune in and listen.  I think it’s pretty cool that my grandma’s essence and wisdom will inspire me throughout the most difficult and exhilarating times in my life going forward.

Coaching is about finding your inner voice and about enabling your true self to shine through the layers of identity that you’ve accumulated over a lifetime.  Caring too much about what other people think about you is a common way you can get sidetracked.  But harnessing the wisdom of people you care about to encourage you can truly catapult you to higher places.

Who’s in your Wisdom Circle?  It may include your wise Future Self, precious mentors, family and friends who are living or who are with us in spirit.  The members may come and go through different phases of your life.  How will you start tapping into the power that’s already in your Circle?

“Now I get paid while I ski. I tell clients to call the helmet. Clients call the wired blue tooth while I’m going 35 mph down the slopes and I bill them for it.”

Most people think Rob Waterman is living the dream. He was once at a large law firm where he didn’t fit in. Today, he teaches skiing at Breckenridge while working full time as an attorney. He will tell you it was a very deliberate course of decisions he made and self-love that got him to where he is today… which is happier than he’s ever been. 

Jung: I wanted to ask you about your experience because you’re obviously very happy and I help people with making career changes.

Rob: It really wasn’t a switch. Most people think of it as an either/or. I like to think of it as a curve, not like a 90-degree switch. There’s a feeling of disconnect with a switch.

Really what I did was I curved my career so it would be where I wanted when I wanted. It takes some force, but it’s like you’re driving a car and you come to an intersection and all of a sudden you yank the wheel, you may flip. But if you know it’s coming and you slow down, you can get where you want without having any sort of disruption.

Know Yourself and Move Towards Something

Rob: You’ve got to know yourself. You’ve got to know what you want to do. Too many people think of retirement as stopping doing something.  ’I'm going to stop doing what I’m doing.’

To me, healthy living is positive, moving towards something. You shouldn’t make decisions based on aversion. You should be running towards something. Where do you want to be? What kind of person am I?

Trying to Fit In at a Big Law Firm Was Counterproductive

Rob: I’ve been a lawyer since 1970. I was a young associate in a big law firm in Detroit, did the usual kind of thing, had my own law firm. I was of counsel.. an independent contractor within the firm, not a partner. It became clear to me that I’m not a corporate animal. To try to fit into the organization was counterproductive. Somehow the people I worked with, they would manage to find out I think they’re an idiot – that kind of situation. Career limiting.

In my particular field, you can do criminal, divorce, corporate, commercial, all these various things. Early on, I recognized that if I did divorce, criminal, I’d be in court all the time. Your schedule is not your own. It’s driven by docket, deadline and other things. Civil litigation for example, 75%-80% settles prior to trial and so you aren’t as driven as mandatory court appearances. You can handle litigation. I moved to Colorado. It wasn’t an accident. In Colorado, all your filings are electronic, so you can file 24/7. They don’t have you appear for hearings. They file the response electronically. We litigate, we litigate.. I’ve been here 12 years and I’ve tried one case. I’ve been in court under 20 times. Yet I’m litigating 3 cases.

Jung: That’s amazing!

You’re Either Growing or Dying

Rob: This will be my ninth year as a ski instructor at Breckenridge. I think it’s vitally important that you wake up, every morning, thinking that you are growing.

You can’t tread water in life. You’re either growing or dying – emotionally, psychologically, lots of different ways.

Skiing is like dancing. It does not require physical strength. It requires balance, timing and technique. It’s a great woman’s and old person’s sport. The best skier on the mountain will be a 90 lb woman.

I got a Level 2 Certification. I’m in the top one-third of all the ski instructors at Breckenridge. You can imagine how good the skiers are at Breckenridge.

It’s about a 3/4 failure rate, for a 4-day examination on the snow. I got the level 2 certification at 65. I was the oldest person that year.

To feel that you’re getting better at something at a time when life is stripping things away from you psychologically and emotionally, to believe you’re actually improving at something, especially something physical, means everything in the world.

Jung: And there is such a sense of freedom and power on the mountain.

Rob: Exactly! And you can feel the vectors, the balance of forces – the movement, the balancing. The transference of forces in a graceful way. If you watch a very good skier, they flow — flow down like mercury. That feeling is fantastic.

Taking Up Ski Racing at Age 65

Rob: I picked the sport that does not require physical strength… it’s not an accident. Pick as a hobby something that’s not unrealistic.

I’m going for Level 3 certification (full certification) by the age of 70. This is about challenges and goals. When I got level 2, I took up ski racing at age 65, and I had never raced in my life.

Jung: Wow!

Rob: You know NASTAR? National ski racing. They time you and you’re put into a national pool. It’s like Internet poker… I raced and first year I made the National Finals in Steamboat Springs and I didn’t win, but that didn’t matter, and I haven’t raced since.

It’s your own choices, but you’ve got to curve your life and curve your career so your choices are doable.

Wake Up Like a Dog Every Day

"No matter how crappy the day before was, the dogs wake up happy." (Photo courtesy of Jocelyn Chang)

Jung: You really love a challenge. There is so much joy and energy in your voice.

Rob: You know something? I’ve got dogs. I try to wake up every morning like my dog does. No matter how crappy the day before was, the dogs wake up happy. Every day is a great day. Every day is a gift, especially at my age. If you’re still breathing, it’s a good day.

The Great Gift of Alcoholism

Jung: Have you always had such a positive outlook on life?

Rob: Oh, God no. I was an alcoholic, and I was hospitalized for depression.

Jung: What was the change, how did this come about then?

Rob: It could be that it was the great gift of alcoholism. Fundamentally, if you don’t change your life, you’re going to die. It’s essentially a denial mechanism.
It’s aversion therapy, very short term. As part of overcoming that, you have to have a positive attitude. Otherwise your demon will get you. I had a fundamental sea shift. It was self-preservation. There are signs. This is going to kill me pretty quickly. You know the saying, if a tree falls, does it make a sound? In my drinking days, the corollary is, if you had a lot of fun but you can’t remember it, it didn’t really happen.

Jung: Your honesty, your sense of humor about overcoming this great challenge is inspiring.

Rob: You either laugh or you cry.

I’m very active in the community, very well known. I’m the president of the Chamber of Commerce, I’m a Councilman… I discovered I was great at networking very late in life… Wisdom is the gem that you sift from the debris left by all your mistakes. I’ve got a lot of debris.

Jung: I could write an entire article with all the powerful one-liners that you have!

Rob: I’m a trial attorney!

What it comes down to is: Are you loving life? Are you learning? Are you growing?  Too many people are treading water, that’s their mental attitude. Instead, if you’re moving towards something, it doesn’t have to be a great goal, like curing cancer, it could be being a better skier…

The Most Brilliant Business Model

Jung: You sound just like a life coach.

Rob: It was either that or die.

So, earlier in your life, ask, where do you want to be in life? Emotionally. People do it financially. But not in terms of happiness, being self-fulfilled. So what happens is they hit that age where they can pay the bills, and they hit the disconnect. ‘And now what?’ Too many just sit there decline and vegetate. I chose.

Now I get paid while I ski. I tell clients to call the helmet. Clients call the wired blue tooth while I’m going 35 mph down the slopes and I bill them for it. Not while I’m on a bump run – that’s too challenging.

Jung: No moguls.

Rob: I have literally billed thousands while skiing, on the chair lift and going down slopes.

Jung: And you’re always accessible!

Rob: 24/7. I give them my home number. … I ski with clients. We do ski lessons. I bill at lunch, bill for $200/hr, then go back and give instruction and charge for that too.

Jung: Sounds like a great business model.

Rob: Yeah! The point is it’s not an accident. You start it early. Curve your career. Pick transactional and business law rather than divorce and criminal. Pick at a young age or slide into it. Then you’re not having to be in court all the time.

Jung: It’s my job to help ask people the questions that get you to where you are. Figuring out what it is that will make you happy. I want you to put me out of business. How did you do it yourself, how can you do it yourself?

The Secret to Finding Happiness

Rob: No one has ever asked me how did I get to where I am… it did all begin when I decided to recover from alcoholism. For someone that’s not going through that, how do you do that?

Jung: That was the pushing force for you.

Rob: Or you’ll go back to the bottle. You can’t make excuses. I don’t know if you deal with alcoholism at all.

Jung: I don’t.

Rob: Self-deception. You have to be brutally honest with yourself or you’ll go back. How do you find out what you want? You know what it is?

Jung: What’s that?

Rob: Loving yourself. Too many people don’t. You can’t love somebody else if you can’t love yourself. How can you give to someone else something you can’t have?

The Black Hole Theory

Rob: Want to hear my black hole theory? When you have kids, one of two things happens. You either plant a seed of self-worth and love in the child in their little chest. Or if you do not do that, the space remains which is a black hole.

Some people, and you see them all the time, they need to be loved. The black hole is there and they have a great craving to fill it. No matter how much they get, they will not be happy. The person doesn’t feel more loved. The person with the seed, no matter what happens, they have that balance, a feeling of self worth inside.

The people with the black hole will never be happy. It’s like a curse. They don’t have the self worth.

Jung: Isn’t there still hope? We’re talking about a very small percentage of people who have the black hole?

Rob: It’s not a lot of people. You know the type of person I mean though.

Jung: Well, I’m not a psychologist.

Rob: I believe there are people who are essentially can’t be happy. Workaholics often are not.

Jung: But once people are aware of their gaps, can’t they work on it?

Rob: There’s degrees of it. Big black holes and small black holes. It’s a spectrum. You need to be comfortable in your own skin. Some people are always trying to fill something. Workaholics. “Look-at-me”-ism. They don’t know who they are driven by.

Jung: I know what you mean.

Rob: You’re asking me questions I haven’t thought of.

Happiness is not a vacuum. It doesn’t just happen. It is earned, worked for. Part of your life as much as anything else. I had a wife who was very unhappy. She was sitting there, waiting for life to make her happy. It’s an active activity. Heal yourself. Be comfortable in your own skin.

Jung: We are on the same page. When I look for clients whom I can have the most impact with, it’s people who can be honest with who they are and assess where they are and yes, get to self-acceptance. I hope the lesson is that people can get to self love and self acceptance, which is part of self love.

Rob: You can sense it in people. Your job is so much easier.

Feeling Young at Heart Next to Joe Lieberman

Jung: One last question.. do you keep in touch with your Yale classmates?

Rob: Not really, a couple. I went back for my *GASP* 45th reunion. Everyone there was old, so I danced with all their daughters. My girlfriend’s 43.

I spent 1 1/2 hours talking with Joe Lieberman. He’s a classmate. But he’s old– talking about old things! I date younger women. Women my age start scrapbooking, and that’s not where I’m going.

Jung: This interview’s going in a completely different direction.

Rob: Well you asked!

Jung: You are young at heart and surround yourself with like-minded people.

On a night out, Rob will often outlast his 23-year-old roommate. This makes Rob feel good. No matter what, he wakes up the next day — you guessed it — happy. Thank you, Rob!

What do you think of Rob’s philosophy on life?

For full effect, watch the video above before you read on.

No, seriously, go back and watch the video first.

It is hard to imagine that half of the people who watched the video were able to count the number of passes made by people in white shirts, but missed the gorilla thumping on his chest.  In this well-known Harvard psych experiment, researchers concluded that “we are missing a lot of what goes on around us, and that we have no idea that we are missing so much.”

What if your whole life passed by and you counted all the passes you needed to – meticulously, flawlessly – but missed giant gorillas along the way?

You might be showing up to work, executing efficiently, powering through your to-do lists, and juggling all the balls you need to at home.  But are you truly happy?   Feeling fulfilled?  Or is something missing?  Maybe there is some aspect of your health, relationships, or other areas outside of your career that you are not even aware of.

Don’t fall into the trap of having tunnel vision.  This experiment shows just how powerful our capability to focus on the task at hand is, and how easy it is to lose sight of the bigger picture as a result.  Take a moment to reflect on what’s most important.

What’s the important invisible gorilla in your life?